Oppo, Educate Me On Volkswagen GTIs

"AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC" (addictedtom3s) 07/30/2015 at 22:35 • Filed to: VW GTI

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In an effort to maintain my sanity while job hunting I’ve started browsing for potential future cars I would like to purchase. (I’ve already researched all I can on Full Frame DSLRs and automatic watches.) During my searches through Craigslist, the GTI has piqued my interest. Yes it’s FWD and I crave for RWD but if the handling is as sublime as everyone says it is I wouldn’t mind giving up RWD.

I specifically want to know about the Mk6 and Mk5 GTIs.

Here’s what I know about the GTI:

The current generation is the Mark 7

They handle quite well

The interior is rather nice

Plaid interior

I4 engines with tuning potential from APR/COBB

The stance crowd has completely taken over the VW community

VW Vortex should be avoided at all costs

So what else should I know about the Mk6 and Mk5 GTI?

Bytemite > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 22:43

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GTI: One of the cheapest and earliest cars you can buy with a proper Dual Clutch.

whoarder is tellurium > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 22:44

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A bunch of serious things that are prone to failure or have potential to break.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthr…

Which makes no difference because I still love the MKV GTI.

Brian Silvestro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 22:50

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What do you want from a car

I can recommend cars that are not the GTI

TheOnelectronic > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 22:52

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I drove a Mk. 5 GTI for a while and, honestly, I did not get the hype. AT ALL. It was sluggish, not particularly that fun to drive, and that particular vehicle had a lot of issues.

The newer ones may be better, but new-for-new, for the money I’d go with a Focus or Fiesta ST every time.

Agrajag > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 22:58

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If you go with a mkv, get one from 2009 or up. They have the same upgraded 2.0 as the mk6. I always liked the exterior styling of the 6 over the 5 but the 5’s interior is outstanding. The plaid is of a much higher quality. Interlagos plaid is best plaid.

roboro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:07

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i have one with tsi engine. small little niggly issues here and there, but it's a fun car after you get it tuned.

Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:12

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AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Brian Silvestro 07/30/2015 at 23:14

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I honestly have no idea. I’ve only ever had an Acura CL so I would prefer something that is not a V6 and something that is RWD. Practicality-wise I’d kind of like something impractical simply because I can (single, early 20’s). Although budget-wise I’m looking somewhere around below $7000.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Bytemite 07/30/2015 at 23:16

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I’m actually genuinely surprised about how factual and interesting that fact is. Well done. Well done.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Agrajag 07/30/2015 at 23:18

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Yeah I quite like the way the Mk6 looks. It’s sort of aggressive from the front but very practical and almost sleeper-ish from the back. Yes, I’ve fallen quite hard for the plaid interiors. I got to sit in a Mk7 with plaid at an auto show earlier this year. Gorgeous.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > TheOnelectronic 07/30/2015 at 23:20

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Hmm that’s what I was afraid of. There’s a lot of hype with hot-hatches currently. I’ve sat in a FoST at an auto show before and I was not that impressed with the interior to be honest. I’m sure the thrills of it would make me forget momentarily but I kind of want some luxury and comfort since it would be a DD.

TheOnelectronic > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:22

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For comfort, find someone willing to give up some ST1 seats. The Recaros are awful for a lot of people. The ST1 seats on the other hand are great. Comfortable for long, long stints in the saddle, but still supportive in turns.

And it is an absolute hoot to drive.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > whoarder is tellurium 07/30/2015 at 23:25

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Read through the first post thinking “That’s not so bad...sort of?”

*scrolls onto second post and realizes THERE’S A SECOND POST OF ISSUES*

But seriously, how do you like your Mk5?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > TheOnelectronic 07/30/2015 at 23:29

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Oh dear, the FoST is starting to sound reasonable and a viable option when I can afford it. Oppo seems to have reached maximum infection for me.

It's a "Porch-uh" > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:33

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Both the Mk 5 and 6 are great cars, but like lots of performance cars with direct injection, the intake manifold and valves get gummed up with carbon deposits every 30K miles or so. So when you’re looking to buy one, either expect to do the service right away or make sure it was done recently.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ 07/30/2015 at 23:34

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HNNNNNGGGHHHH. One day while I was going to BevMo I saw the previous gen MS3 and was shocked at how much I liked it. They’re very affordable now for their age as well. Is that yours? How do you like it?

Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:38

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Love it, love the styling the more time u have with it. Need to replace a rear shock which is a known common problem but no real issues. Nice but simple interior. Fightinf the urge to dump $$ under the hood right now lol

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ 07/30/2015 at 23:44

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I might be in the majority but I like the crazy maniacal smile of the MS3. It just ticks all the right buttons for me: hatchback, power, sound, manual, aftermarket support, good looking and affordable.

What is the shock issue?

TheOnelectronic > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:46

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I’ll put it this way; I can get out of a 997 Carrera, or a ‘13 S6, and get into mine and have a blast.

Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:52

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One in the rear is leaking. They blow on everyone....rockauto only has fronts left in stock lol

whoarder is tellurium > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/30/2015 at 23:59

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I personally dont own one, but my close friend bought a MKV when it was introduced. We’d go to car meets, autocross, drive around aimlessly etc. Excellent car, great engine. He used and abused it till’ the clutch blew up and some other things happened. IIRC he did have the cold start, air conditioning and cam follower issue(s). I think he put 20k miles on in a year initially LOL.

Then later on in life, I started working in VW/Audi parts distribution. I started seeing patterns, common repeat parts getting shipped out in mass quantities day after day. Its hilarious knowing what vehicles the parts belong to and the reason behind the order frequency.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ 07/31/2015 at 00:09

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Ah, not as bad as I thought it would be. Perhaps that means it’s time for coilovers? ;D

FromCanadaWithLove > Bytemite 07/31/2015 at 00:28

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Not a good thing. A transmission flush for those alone is over $400 from VW. I speak from unfortunate experience.

Bytemite > FromCanadaWithLove 07/31/2015 at 00:30

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Then don’t do a transmission flush. Simple as that. I have never done a transmission flush on any car.

FromCanadaWithLove > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 00:32

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The best GTI is not a GTI. Find an E82 128i, Fiesta ST, Miata, or anything else. I’ve been burned, scarred, hurt, and betrayed by Volkswagen’s reliability.

I know it sounds weird suggesting a BMW over a VW for reliability reasons, but I’ve had a ball in each game, and I’ve never had a single issue with my BMW (although I’ve only had it for just over a year). The VW had something wrong every Tuesday.

stuttgartobsessed > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 00:35

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I’ll let Speedhunters explain: http://www.speedhunters.com/2013/05/the-go…

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 00:37

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Its a VAG product to good luck after 100k. Also if you like electrical gremlins that’s the car for you

FromCanadaWithLove > Bytemite 07/31/2015 at 00:41

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You’re braver than me. I had a VW DSG transmission grenade on me just before the scheduled maintenance. It might just be a coincidence, but transmission services are something I tend to stick to now. (Although I think a top up is better than a flush)

Bytemite > FromCanadaWithLove 07/31/2015 at 01:27

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I can’t blame you after that tragic experience. Lol. I just had cars go 300,000 miles and 200,000 miles with no transmission maintenance. So its just something I don’t pay attention to.

KatzManDu > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 03:22

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They are not bad cars; DSG is solid as long as it has been taken care of (service every 80k miles.) Like everything else, proper care and feeding is important (timing belt, fuel injection cleaned, etc.) Most of it has been covered.

I never noticed much torque pull in my 2006 GTI w/ DSG. Especially compared with a V6 FWD Buick.

Also look at the R32 variants. AWD, VR6, etc.

ZOOMZOOM! > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 04:38

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Those last two are so true. I can’t decide which I hate more about the late-model VW internet world...the stance bros or the hellscape that is VW Vortex.

ZOOMZOOM! > ZOOMZOOM! 07/31/2015 at 04:40

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Also, adding to my comment with some actual real things to say...I know there is a lot about reliability problems with VWs, but I just had the first mechanical repair (not counting maintenance like brake pad replacements and the like) my Jetta has seen in 97,000 miles and that was just a belt tensioner breaking. I don’t doubt that some people have had problems, but don’t let them convince you that a GTI would just be a lemon.

jkm7680 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 06:02

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Good cars. Reliability isn’t horrible, but beware of timing belt changes at 100k interval. There is tons and tons of aftermarket potential, fun to drive, looks good and much more practical than a POS Miata.

Brian Silvestro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 07:19

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If you can find a stock one, buy either a 240sx or an AE86

E34 M5

GTV6

Miata

190E Cosworth

nermal > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 08:16

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I currently have a ‘12 GTI Autobahn, bought new in ‘11.

Regarding transmissions, if you must get an auto, the DSG is the best auto you can get in a “mainstream” car. I would have been fine with it if I never drove a manual one though.

Get the upgraded headlights.

Make sure you get good tires. The crappy all-seasons that come on them are terrible. Use summers in the summer and winters in the winter.

Make sure you get one with good maintenance records.

Avoid one that’s been modded if you can.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 09:44

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What about an IS300? I6, RWD, practical, useable, tuneable vehicle.

BobintheMtns > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 10:33

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I’m at 130K on a ‘07 MkV... it’s been the most reliable and enjoyable car I’ve ever owned. Period. Here’s what Clarkson had to say when the MkV came out:

g_berserk > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 11:17

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I had a Mk5 2007 for seven years and drove it daily, tracked and autocrossed the car.
It’s by far the best car I’ve ever owned, it had it’s flaws and shortcomings, but it was a very very nice car overall and a perfect daily driver even after fiddling with the suspension and brakes.

Feel free to ask anything you want to know, I may not know everything but I have more than enough first-hand knowledge of the ins and outs of the car, and what I don’t know I can point you in the right direction.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 13:02

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Try an E46, doesn’t have to be an M3, kinda lightweight ish with “decent power” (My 323CI makes ~170, pretty fun car, even though I haven’t driven really anything else). And of course, it has RWD.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash 07/31/2015 at 14:33

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I’ve been looking at e46s (my name probably has given that away to you already). I’m trying to justify to myself that I should hold off until I can afford to get one and properly maintain it. My dream car since I was a kid has been the e46 M3 and I kind of want to get one and treat it like a queen (and occasionally like a coke-fueled mistress on the track). I’m not sure if getting a regular e46 would kind of spoil the wait for the M3?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Brian Silvestro 07/31/2015 at 14:38

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I feel we’d get along quite well talking cars over beers. Those are all cars I really want. A 240x would be really hard to find stock especially since I am located in California where anything that can be modified will be modified regardless of the outcome. GTV6 would be amazing but I’m not sure I would trust it with DD duties.

Miata and e34 M5 are definitely on the list. I saw TST’s recently uploaded video of an e34 M5 and the want is STRONG. The rear end looks gorgeous and timeless while keeping the lovely classic split headlights up front.

190e Cosworth, I would kill for.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > ZOOMZOOM! 07/31/2015 at 14:43

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That’s what I’m thinking! There are so many GTIs out there and people in Germany don’t seem to have that big of a fear of issues with VW/Audi and BMW as we do over here. Maybe some of it is down to the owner. And honestly, who could say no to a hot hatch with plaid interior? With that said though, I would be buying used so that does worry me since you can never undo neglect.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > g_berserk 07/31/2015 at 14:47

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Seems like people who have actually owned one love them. Do you feel the handling and fun-factor lives up to the hype? How do you handle the stance-bros telling you to “get bags, bro” and “you should slam it, bro”? Is the interior really as nice as every journalist claims it to be (I’ve only ever sat in a Mk7)?

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 07/31/2015 at 14:49

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That’s on my list as well but I live in California so....if it hasn’t been tuned/slammed yet, it’s almost definitely an auto-tragic.

66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 14:52

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Haha I didn’t see your name actually, but yeah if an E46 M3 is your attainable dream car, by all means wait for it, unless you’re like that couple that has like 70 Vipers, you’re still going to want other cars, so I guess it makes sense to try something else if you see an E46 M3 in the future.

Brian Silvestro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 15:10

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I live in the northeast so finding 240sxs is nearly impossible, but they do pop up once in awhile. Just have to be patient.

I agree with you regarding the alfa, but damn will it look nice abandoned on the side of the road.

Find a Sunburst Yellow NA. They are the coolest Miata, but extremely rare.

190Es aren’t as expensive as you think! E34s are just about to go the way of the E28 M5 it seems, better catch one before they're out of reach forever.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > 66671 - 200 [METRIC] my dash 07/31/2015 at 15:11

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Oh god no, I have a pretty short interval of lust for cars except for the e46 M3. I would get bored with that many of them hahaha. Although credit where it’s due, that couple was pretty committed to put that much money and time into only Vipers.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Brian Silvestro 07/31/2015 at 15:48

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I would treat the Alfa like a goddess. I can almost imagine going full petrolicious and putting on driving gloves to drive it on a canyon road.

I keep flip flopping between whether I like the NA or the NB more. The NA is the Miata but the NB has a slightly more updated interior.

Really? I’ll have to do more research on the 190e then. Yeah, it feels like a rolling timeline for BMWs. At this rate every single BMW is going to be out of reach soon. First the 2002, e30 and e28. Now the e34, e36 and soon the e39 and e46.

ZOOMZOOM! > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 15:54

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That’s true. And the issues with these cars definitely do arise when maintenance hasn’t been done. I would just caution, I guess, that you make sure you buy one that has a lot of good documentation.

Brian Silvestro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 16:01

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The difference is that if you keep the NA long enough it might actually go up in value. Check out BringATrailer, they’re putting NAs up for auction and they’re going for more than I expected.

Usually when I see a 190e on craigslist it’s over priced, but the sweet spot right now for them is around 6-7k.

IN THE EYEEEEEES OF THE ANGELLLL

-RIP all affordable M cars

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > Brian Silvestro 07/31/2015 at 16:15

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Just checked BAT. That’s outrageous. For the money those are going for I’d take my money elsewhere.

That’s not bad for a 190e. I’ll have to keep my eyes open for them now. Something about a manual Mercedes just feels so right to me.

It’s a race against time for Jalops who want an affordable M car now :(

Brian Silvestro > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 16:29

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#investmentcars

The Cosworth is a dogleg too, so extra cool manual

g_berserk > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 07/31/2015 at 17:13

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Out of the box is a fun car, but there a crapton of mods that you can do to the car on a low or giant budget to suit your taste. A stock GTI will understeer less that you would expect on 3,000+ pounds car and it has a very modulable snap-oversteer on lift, but you can notice the weight when changing directions with haste since the suspension has a long ride and it’s a bit on the soft side, but once the front claws in (only 06-07 has full defeatable ESP) the back will follow inmediatly.

The steering is spot-on, and once you invest in a good set of tires it can outperform a Mini Cooper S on the slalom.
The brakes are in my opinion the weakest link in the car. I have suffered from fade on the track until I upgraded the pads and fluid to ATE blue and Hawk HP+ pads, but those a are terribly noisy and dusty, so maybe cash up a little for some Ferodo pads if you’re driving on canyon roads or driving in fast tracks with a lot of hairpins. Bigger brakes will only increase unpsrung mass, unless you go for something like a Brembo GT kit with 2-pieces rotors, so stick with OEM rotos (avoid drilled/sloted, they tend to crack to easily on this platform) and get better pads, fluid and steel-braided lines and good tires.

Also, wait up a few months or HPDE until you upgrade anything in the suspension, specially on the sway bars since they will sharpen way too much the grip envelope of the car and can end in tears. The stock setup is really good to cover up almost any fuckup you can do and the ESP calibration gives you enough room to try to save the car untill it takes back the control and corrects the heading.

The interior is big, full of good and squishy materials, the seats while not Recaros have enough lateral support and can be adjusted to almost any height, depth or incline you will need. The seating position is down low for a car that high so it feels more sporty but doesn’t translate the speed sense too well, you can go 60 and still feel like going 30, so it can be a bit boring if you are not going fast or zig-zagging.

The DSG is fast, and addictive when having fun but a drag on stop traffic, it will slam into gear from time to time, and pre-08 models have a bunch of issues with the computer (mechatronic unit), also, they need expensive maintenance every 45k miles or so.
6-Spd tranny is where the money is, has decent gearing and since the turbo has practically no lag you can speed up to 45 on 2nd gear and then jump to 6th to save gas or leave the car in 3rd the whole day except for taking off from a stop light. The only issue I can tell you about the manual is that the clutch is electro-hydraulic with adaptation engage point which sucks because you can never fully develop muscular memory for the engage point and always rely on feeling to know when it’s actually engaged.

Now, regarding the low-society, there are always two sides, the low-slow people and the function-over-form crowd... actually there’s a third party, the OEM+ guys, I suggest sticking to them, the GTI is a beautiful car that deserves some respect, and it’s not really a good lowrider and you need to invest quite a bit to make it a decent racecar.

g_berserk > g_berserk 07/31/2015 at 17:44

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Almost forgot...
The car will develop a million rattles over time and the more you fiddle with it, the more rattles it will have, there’s no way around that. It’s a VW thing you have to accept. Turn up the volume on the stereo, always bring good music with you.

The Mk6 is an overall improvement of the MK5 in the mechanics department but the materials are a bit cheaper, the Mk7 I just can get myself to love it, but people swear by them.

06-08 models have the mos creature features, but 08.5+ models have improved engine (timing chain, solved high pressure fuel pump issues, bigger gains from re-maping, etc). If you’re buying a pre-08.5 model ask if they changed the cam follower, if the seller doesn’t know what that is (it’s the bit of the HPFP that is in contact with the camshaft and fuel for so many headaches in FSI engines) steer away from that car, it’s probably a ticking time bomb.

AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC > g_berserk 07/31/2015 at 17:49

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Damn you make really convincing points. That actually sounds really nice. My car refuses to lift-off oversteer unless you go 11/10ths which I am not comfortable doing since the brakes are horrible.

Sounds like stock for a few months and HDPE events is ideal. I am a pretty OEM+ guy myself so that would be pretty fine with me.

I’m having trouble understanding what you mean by going for feeling as opposed to muscle memory for the clutch. Is the clutch bite point variable because of the electronic assist? Or is it just a large range of engagement?

PWRandSPD > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 08/01/2015 at 16:27

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I had a 2007 MKV. I loved the car, and used it for many miles. I use to put about 40k per year on a car. The car was fantastic, and I had no issues other than wear and tear. I sold it with 150,000 approximately on the clock and had no issues. I did regular maintenance and never missed a service. The car can handle a lot of cargo, you would be surprised how much stuff you can fit in it, made moving a lot easier. I ran summer and winter tires, ran like a tank in the snow in the north east. Driving to buffalo in a blizzard was no issue(it was raining in CT when I left and I did not check Buffalo weather). I have had over 20 vehicles, and I am strongly considering buying a MKVII when they hit the used market and I can reasonably buy one. I am actually hoping the GTD makes it to our shores, but I am not holding my breath. If you are worried about reliability with any car, buy a CPO coming off lease, the maintenance is done and you get a warranty to keep you sleeping at night. There is also always CarMax and their warranty, just don’t let them know you have read any of Doug D. escapades with his Range Rover. All things said, the build quality is far beyond what you get in many other hot hatches and the ride and handling great as well.

g_berserk > AddictedToM3s - Drives a GC 08/03/2015 at 10:43

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Variable bite point on the clutch. The thing is that Germans over engineered this car and gave it sensors and learning computers everywhere (there’s a joke about the sensors probably having sensors to detect when they are not working correctly) so they idea is that depending on load, gear, and throttle position the bite point of the clutch changes to make your life easier, and it does to some degree on the daily, but if you have long time using cars with cable actuated clutch you kind of burn in your muscle memory how much to press the pedal to disengage the clutch and how much slip you can have to avoid stalling going uphill and stuff like that.

It’s not a deal breaker, just takes some time to adjust. I would highly recommend you to look for one in a dealer since they are more open to allow you to take the car for a spirited ride. It doesn’t matter if you won’t buy that specific car, but just that you can experience driving one before fully committing to buy it.

There an awesome community, golfmkv.com, since the car is already a couple generations old, it’s not as active as it used to be, but there are over 7 years worth of information about the platform there. I still post from time to time under this same user name even if the car is long gone. There is also the sister site golfmk6.com, I’m not a memeber there, but a lot of good guys and girls from mkv went there after they upgraded to a mk6.